Under Review: Volvo Edition

"Andrew Seifert" (andrewseifert)
08/31/2013 at 08:00 • Filed to: Volvo

After I was granted authorship privileges on Oppo, I decided to make an attempt at creating a regular feature article. Every week I will review a specific carmaker and discuss the reasons why it sucks and why it rocks. Volvo will be the subject of my inaugural article.

Why Volvo Is the Best Carmaker Ever: The stunning !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! previewed at the Frankfurt Motor Show proves that Volvo still has some tricks up its sleeve in the styling department. If the !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! of the new XC90 are to be believed, Volvo's next-gen flagship SUV will be a home run. The V60 wagon looks particularly striking despite lacking the aircraft hangar-sized interior that was beloved feature of the classic boxy wagons.

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Why Volvo Absolutely Sucks : In trying to keep up with BMW and Mercedes, Volvo focused on generic crossovers and neglected their wagon lineup. This move alienated Volvo's traditional buyers and put them nowhere near their German rivals in terms of sales. In fact, sales have been so dismal that it was rumored that Volvo would exit the US market by 2015. Fortunately, however, Volvo appears to be committed to North America.

Their current lineup has seen very little change beyond periodic styling updates, although that may change in the next few years as the new XC90 hits showrooms, as well as a possibly redesigned XC70 wagon.

Breadwinner: the XC60 has been Volvo's best seller since 2009.

Instant Classic: the 240 wagon is Volvo's icon. Besides the distinctive boxy styling, the 240 also boasted rock solid reliability and incredible usefulness while still being fun to drive. The car has always had its legion of loyal fans but in recent years it has also become a popular hipster ride.

The One We All Want: a reboot of the previous-gen V70 R. Sure the S60 R & the C30 Polestar are fantastic speed machines but a return of the high performance wagons would be nice, even if they don't sell well.

Forgettable: Again, the XC60. Besides its above-average safety ratings, it has done little to distinguish itself from competitors. There's an R version, but it doesn't have much of a performance edge and is essentially a glorified trim package. Buyers are better off springing for an equivalent Audi or BMW.

Final Take : Right now, there is very little in the Volvo lineup worth getting excited about. However, in the next few years Volvo will have some new offerings will definitely be worth a second look. The new XC90 should be a gamechanger in the luxury CUV market, and the V60 is an intriguing option as a wagon entry.

Any questions or comments? Post them below!

DISCUSSION (66)

Benjinator12 > Andrew Seifert
08/31/2013 at 09:30

Great article, I dare you to do DOME next.

PardonMyFlemish16 > Andrew Seifert
08/31/2013 at 09:36

To: Jalopnik

Subject: Station Wagons

Body: NOBODY BUYS WAGONS ANYMORE.

P.S. Volvo will continue in its slide. It is a tweener brand. It's cars are not much more luxurious than top of the line mainstream cars. But they are not quite "bargains" compared to actual luxury cars. Back in the 80s and 90s, when small SUVs didn't exist, people loved wagons. Now that small SUVs do, pretty much at no consequence other than usability, big wagons are kind of pointless. Small wagons/hatches will continue to flourish because, again, they make sense.

Plus back in the day there were a lot of bad cars. Now I can count them on one hand (they are all Dodges), and those are still pretty good compared to what we had 10, 20 years ago. The competition has intensified and Volvo's reasons for purchase have fizzled out.

Let the dream go. Volvo had a good run. They should bow out gracefully and focus on China the day their US operations become unprofitable.

Daniel Fleck > Andrew Seifert
08/31/2013 at 09:41

Kinja'd!!!

Is this a photoshopped Ford Focus hatch? It sure looks like one...

rent > Daniel Fleck
08/31/2013 at 09:54

I thought the same thing, looks like they cribbed the ST a little too closely. That said, I don't mind it, I would like to see Volvo bring a 5 door upscale ST clone to the market.

JQJ213- Now With An Extra Cylinder! > PardonMyFlemish16
08/31/2013 at 10:00

See, and I am going to completely disagree with you on this one. We own a 2012 S60, and will most likely be getting a V60 when it hits our shores. Honestly, they are quite luxurious. The leather interior looks modern and is still comfortable. The seats rival cars that cost twice as much (how do I know, our friend has a 2013 Audi A7, which I've been in a lot). And the prices are a lot cheaper than competing cars. Have you built a BMW 3 series lately, and thrown in leather, and bluetooth, and seat warmers? They come in around $45,00, whereas the Volvo, with a more powerful engine by the way, is only around $35,000. It also doesn't need to be run on premium fuel. It is still fun to drive.

And people are losing the love for their SUVs again. Gas in my area jumped 18 cents a gallon because of this holiday weekend. Many people are now driving things like the Jetta TDI Sportwagen, VW Golf,Audi A3, Mazda 3, Ford Focus, Prius (yes, those are hatch), and many more.

Volvo has no intentions of leaving. They are fighting and winning in some aspects.

Rumour is that if the V60 sells decently, the XC40 and V40 will follow.

Just drop in some diesels and they are golden.

KingKai > Andrew Seifert
08/31/2013 at 10:01

It's too bad the V40 didn't come to the US. Even the dealerships were requesting that Volvo do a NA release.

Fuel_of_Satan > Daniel Fleck
08/31/2013 at 10:04

They are closely related , so I'd be surprised if there wasn't some Focus in the design.

smackela--extra-wagonated > PardonMyFlemish16
08/31/2013 at 10:20

While it is more or less true that nobody in the U.S. buys wagons anymore, that doesn't make it so globally, and certainly doesn't mean that Volvo should stop making wagons just to satisfy the American preference for high-riding wagons (aka SUVs).

There's no question that SUVs and crossovers do most of the same things that people used to buy wagons for and avoid the perceived stigma that some associate with driving wagons. By way of example, I've owned a boatload of Volvo wagons—240s, 740s, 760s, a V70, even a Duett—but my wife wouldn't be caught dead driving one. She drives an XC90 2.5T. It's essentially a tall wagon with extra ground clearance, but she doesn't see it as a wagon. Works for me, it has most of the virtues and utility of my wagons. Beats having a sedan, that's for sure.

On the other hand, it doesn't accelerate or corner as hard as my relatively ancient three-pedal 740 Turbo wagon. The fuel economy, while good for an SUV or crossover, suffers for all of that weight. And it is a hell of a lot harder to put four bikes on the roof rack of the XC90 than any of my much lower to the ground wagons.

Volvo's status as what you term a "tweener" has long been a problem for the brand. Many of us old-timer Volvo owners think they started to lose the plot in the '80s, when they began moving away from their tough-but-relatively-basic-wheels heritage (240, 140, Amazon, PV) and began chasing the BMW-driving yuppie market by sticking leather, automatic climate control, automatic transmissions, and power everything into every 7-series they could churn out. But now you can get all of that stuff in a Kia, so I suppose they were just ahead of the curve on where the market was headed. And in that respect, there is less to distinguish any automaker these days if we're just going to talk about "features" without reference to quality or safety. Volvo has had its ups and downs vis a vis quality, but if our XC90 is any indicator, they've gotten back on the right track. And if/when SUVs go out of fashion, perhaps Volvo will be well-placed in the wagon market. One can hope.

Vintage1982Benz > Andrew Seifert
08/31/2013 at 10:21

Great first effort! Looking forward to future installments.

I've always lusted after a 240, and one of the funnest driving experiences I've had in recent memory was throwing around a C30 on some mountain roads (a rental). I miss the s40, as it was a vehicle I was considering buying this past March when I was looking to buy.

Malforus > KingKai
08/31/2013 at 10:22

I actually just went to Volvocars.com to try and build one to find out how much my next car would cost....

But I found out its not here...and now I am just annoyed because the C30 while interesting doesn't have the person carrying I want.

PelicanHazard > KingKai
08/31/2013 at 10:28

The dealerships fought for and won the V60. The V40 is their new target.

exizeo - still loving fourza > JQJ213- Now With An Extra Cylinder!
08/31/2013 at 10:28

I agree with this post.

My family owns a beautiful Volvo XC90. Yes, it's a huge SUV, we know. It was used (MY2008) and only cost us less than $20000, and the new equivalent would be about $40000. A 5-year-old used BMW X5 E70 would be what a new XC90 costs, so honestly it was a great bargain.

Oh, and it doesn't have a retarded Nav screen that creates a ridge in the interior. The screen pops up when Nav is in use, stays down otherwise. It's perfect, the interior has soft pale green lighting that (in my opinion) is better than the amber of BMW.

The exterior design is great as well. It's not flashy, but it's been around for ten years and is still beautiful.

Thomasaurus > Andrew Seifert
08/31/2013 at 10:36

We're pretty much the stereotypical Volvo target audience that Volvo left in the cold... we love clean scandinavian design, and we appreciate the practicality and looks of a wagon. That's why we put our money where our mouth is and bought a v50.

While I like what I see from Volvo in these concepts, I won't consider Volvo to be back (and I won't consider buying another one) until I can buy a real wagon again. Not a cute-ute wagon or jacked up wagon with plastic bits. Just a basic old grounded-to-the-ground wagon. And the boxier the rear, the better.

And it wouldn't kill you to offer a manual inside... but let's not get carried away.

DankyBrobrowsky > PardonMyFlemish16
08/31/2013 at 10:57

As sad as it makes me, I agree with you. What bothers me more though is that even when "wagons" are offered, they lack the space that made them so useful. Just look at the V40 (I assume this is the wagon) photo at the top of the page. The problem isn't so much that people don't buy wagons, its that they are essentially lowered CUVs. The Jettawagon still seems to have some good cargo room as do the 5-series and E-class wagons, but for the most part it seems like anytime we get a wagon its short on cargo room.

JQJ213- Now With An Extra Cylinder! > exizeo - still loving fourza
08/31/2013 at 10:59

I agree. The XC90 still does look classy... its a body style that many people recognize and can point out as a Volvo.

It is still very safe and reliable, and a solid suv, which is why Jeremy Clarkson has one.

KingKai > Malforus
08/31/2013 at 11:01

What are you thinking about getting instead then? The V40 is such a good looking car. One could only dream for a V40-R.

DCCARGEEK > Andrew Seifert
08/31/2013 at 11:18

The post lacks a few things:

1. Facts

2. Data (which is facts made of numbers)

3. Logic

Well written but is 100% enthusiast editorial.

kenhitch > Andrew Seifert
08/31/2013 at 11:18

I'm in helpless love with the S60R and V50. That is all.

Joey D'Anna > Andrew Seifert
08/31/2013 at 11:28

Your wrong about the XC60. If you have a kid and a dog that is too tall to fit in a normal wagon, the xc60 is fantastic. 300+ hp, handles as good as any other softroad SUV out there, really nicely designed and built interior, and far cheaper then the inferior competition, for both used and new.

That's why we traded our c30 for one. Long trips are a pleasure in it. I recommend it to all my friends with kids.

That said, I'm really pumped about the v60. Unless Buick actually comes out with the rumored grand national revival, my CTS is being traded for a v60

Ayeco > PardonMyFlemish16
08/31/2013 at 11:36

I only buy wagons. I only want a hot wagon. So, don't say "nobody".

LJ909 > Andrew Seifert
08/31/2013 at 11:48

Good points in the article. Ive only ever lusted after the S60 R (which sadly they didn't continue continue building) & the short lived but interesting XC90 & the S80 when they both had that Yamaha V8. I really want want either of those used because of the simple fact that no one expects a Volvo to have a V8. Everything else in their current lineup is forgettable.

Malforus > KingKai
08/31/2013 at 11:49

The Focus ST is pretty handsome and has lots of the piece parts I like. However I also have my eye on a diesel A3 or X1 (Ick Crossover I know).

That said I am looking for something that handles snow and corners equally well, but can haul crap around.

Sam Payne > Andrew Seifert
08/31/2013 at 11:50

Great post, keep it up! Your article made me search for old 240s, which is exactly the sort of thing everyone should be doing on a slow Saturday morning!

Sam Payne > PardonMyFlemish16
08/31/2013 at 11:53

No, wagons make more sense than SUVs. When does the normal person ever require more ground-clearance than a wagon provides? Plus, wagons don't ride like the floaty tractors people call "SUVs" that make me sick. There's a time and place for off-road vehicles, and that is on a rough trail at 10 miles per hour with a Land Rover Defender. Other than that, it's just an image thing.

Speedmonkey > Andrew Seifert
08/31/2013 at 12:10

I reviewed the V40 T5 recently . Great car

PardonMyFlemish16 > Ayeco
08/31/2013 at 12:29

For the intents and purposes of a car manufacturer, the wagon market is pretty slim. And because of Volvo's weird place in the market, they can't compete with cheaper Volkwagens or higher brand equity BMWs and Benzes.

mathiassssss > DankyBrobrowsky
08/31/2013 at 12:33

The V40 is a hatchback, not a wagon.

SgtHop > PardonMyFlemish16
08/31/2013 at 12:44

If I had the option to, I would have bought the Mazda 6 wagon in a heartbeat. I didn't have the option to though.

DankyBrobrowsky > mathiassssss
08/31/2013 at 12:46

Gracious for the correction. Wasn't sure if that photo was supposed to be the wagon or not.

PardonMyFlemish16 > Sam Payne
08/31/2013 at 12:48

Most folks don't *NEED* most of the stuff their cars have. I don't *NEED* the performance my 350Z, but I'm sure you would never say it "didn't make sense" for me to buy it. Hell, most folks don't *NEED* the added space/performance of a Camcord over a Civrolla, and yet I'm pretty sure the Camry is still the best selling car in the U.S. So let's not play this game of selectively applying this value/judgment system of "needs" to SUVs because they have displaced the wagons you love but the American public didn't.

Folks are really overblowing things anyway. It's only with this current crop of cars that big wagons have disappeared. Audi, BMW, MB wagons are all available for sale in CPO/warranty guise. And lets not pretend like the Corolla/Camry wagons had anything dynamically over the RAV-4/Highlander. Or that wagon versions of a boring mainstreamer would all of a sudden become some dynamic beast with a wagon back. And there are a lot of hatchbacks for sale, which isn't exactly the same thing, but pretty damn close...

The bellyaching is not warranted... the only wagons that ruled the American streets were those god awful domestic boats from the 70s-80s I wouldn't wish on my worst enemies. We are in the midst of an enthusiast golden age which is being subsidized by the SUVs that folks here love to hate. Open your eyes folks

PardonMyFlemish16 > JQJ213- Now With An Extra Cylinder!
08/31/2013 at 12:53

An 18 cent jump in gas over 1 weekend is hardly worth going through the hassle of selling/buying a car for. You would lose out just on transaction fees alone.

And the fact that the Jetta wagon is such a success for VW says to me Volvo's problem is bigger than wagons.

And o yea... if Volvo stakes their comeback on diesels, they will go the way of Saab. They couldn't convince people to buy their station wagons over Volkswagens... what makes you think they will be able to convince people to buy diesel cars?

I just have one simple question. What objective qualities do Volvo cars bring to the table that makes them worth buying over their competition?

Huell Howitzer > PardonMyFlemish16
08/31/2013 at 13:05

No one buys wagons anymore? Great! All the better reason to buy one. Who the fuck cares what other people drive. I'm no sheep, I drive a wagon. I don't have a dog, I don't have kids, I just like the look, the ability to carry lots of shit around and sit low to the ground. You would be great in marketing for Toyota. Chase the big sellers, ignore the niches...beige ahoy.

Built BMW Tough > Andrew Seifert
08/31/2013 at 13:57

Most underrated model: the S80.

Swedish land missile/barcalounger, if you get the T6.

KingKai > Malforus
08/31/2013 at 14:06

Yeah, the Focus ST is one of the cars that pop up into mind when I look at the V40. The A3 doesn't really have an Audi quality-interior, but it does have four wheel drive, unlike the Focus ST.

TurboLag23 > PardonMyFlemish16
08/31/2013 at 14:12

Well, the problem is that all the people who want fast manual wagons are too poor to afford them.

Case in point: Me. If I was in the position where I could financially accommodate a V70R replacement, or a 6th-gen Subaru Legacy GT Wagon (fingers crossed for the US market), or a BMW 328i wagon, I would. But the reality is that I'm a college student, with college costs, trying to find out a way to afford the 6-speed and rear diff out of an STI someone crashed to swap into his little brother's 136,000-mile 2004 Subaru Outback H6.

And I wouldn't say that nobody buys big wagons... big wagons definitely make sense for families that have less than three kids, especially as alternatives to sedans. They have the handling of sedans, the capacity of SUV's, and they look subtle and understated. Plenty of people have wised up and figured out that SUV's are not "safer" as family cars, since they handle worse. Example: An Audi A4 Avant WILL out-handle a Q5.

And about Volvo needing to "bow out"... their new lineup is nothing short of impressive, and I would suggest you drive some of their cars. My dad just picked up a 2013 S60 a few months ago, and he's loving it (side note: it's his first European car). It's the ONLY car he found that he thought was a suitable replacement to his 2008 Acura TL (which is currently my DD), and frankly I agree with him. BMW, Audi, and Mercedes all made good products, no question, but they all wanted many thousands of dollars more for a similarly-optioned car (like WELL into the $40,000's for the BASE engine). Considering how bad a value the most optioned-out Altimas, Accords, and Camries are these days, the S60 T5 is a steal. In my (not-so-)humble opinion, Volvo is a supremely underrated brand these days.

945T > Sam Payne
08/31/2013 at 14:52

Kinja'd!!!

My girlfriend and I looked for five months for a decent 240 with records & a manual transmission. She's owned it for almost two years now. Dead reliable and easy to fix, we took a road trip to iPd's big Volvo show in May then took the PCH back through Northern Oregon & Washington. This is at haystack rock in Cannon Beach.

Andrew Seifert > DCCARGEEK
08/31/2013 at 15:02

Thanks for the critique! I plan on adding data to back up my claims as well as better logic behind my conclusions. Future installments should be better written/planned out.

Andrew Seifert > Speedmonkey
08/31/2013 at 15:05

My dad actually owns an 2006 V50 T5. Fantastic little wagon, not quite as space as my 2001 XC70 but it's defenitely more fun to drive.

JQJ213- Now With An Extra Cylinder! > PardonMyFlemish16
08/31/2013 at 15:08

The 18 cents is just one example... back when we bought our 07 Pilot in 08, gas was $2.78. Now, its $3.58. It was at over $4 in 2010. It jumps so much, but never goes down.

The Sportwagen isn't really a success for VW. It's sales are quite slim.. but they do sell. More than enough to struggle to keep them on the lots.

Diesel is making a comeback. VW is throwing diesels into everything from Passats to Beetles, to Golfs, to Jettas, to Tiguans (not yet in US, but soon), to Touaregs, to Audi A3, A6, A7, Q5, Q7, to the porsche Cayenne and Panamera. Chevy just threw it into the Cruze, and it is selling quite nicely. Mazda will be putting it into the 6 sedan and CX-5, both of which are projected to sell better than their gasoline equivalents. BMW and Mercedes offer it numerous cars.

Notice that BMW, Mercedes, and Audi are some of Volvo's biggest competition. If they can sell diesels at a profit, why can't, or shouldn't, Volvo do the same?

And why are Volvo's better?

Safety. standard airbags. All kinds. BMW, Audi, and MB charge for side curtains. The Volvo has them standard. City Safety helps stop the car when you aren't paying attention. This is a feature that actually saved our car from some asshole Tahoe driver who cut us off and slammed on his brakes. Volvos are full of safety equipment many cars don't even offer or didn't offer until now.

Price. Again, look at the price of an S60 compared to A4, C class, or 3 series. Volvo falls in easily $10K less.

Engine. The standard S60 makes 250 HP. I don't think any competitors offer that much power at $32,000. But, if you want more, Volvo has you covered again. This time, making 300 HP, with AWD. But, is that still too weak? Get an R-Design and you end up with 325 HP. No, and I mean, no competitors offer that much.

Image. Driving a Volvo shows that you are original. You chose not to buy the common mans BMW. You didn't want the saddest Mercedes in the line up. You also don't look like an ass driving one. It is clean and sophisticated. How many modded S60s do you see? How many poorly driven ones do you see?

Brand. Volvo has a great team of employees. They support the community. Look at Irv with his P1800. It has 3 million miles. Volvo is with him all the way. Volvo on Twitter and Facebook talk to the fans. They give away merchandise. They donate to charities. They love sending you stickers and shirts when your car hits milestones. I don't think the German car companies do that. They have no PR skills.

Andrew Seifert > JQJ213- Now With An Extra Cylinder!
08/31/2013 at 15:11

I think Volvo is well positioned to capitalize on the small wagon/hatchback market surge.

A return of the diesels would also be awesome.

evilfacelessturtle (Hooning a Ford is Domestic Abuse) > PardonMyFlemish16
08/31/2013 at 17:08

"pretty much at no consequence other than usability"

What? That's supposedly the whole point to buying an SUV. You just proved your own argument wrong. SUVs get worse gas mileage and in many cases have less room than a wagon, not to mention their high center of gravity make them prone to rollovers and their extra weight makes for more deadly accidents. There is NO legitimate reason to own an SUV in today's world unless you live in Alaska or Africa.

evilfacelessturtle (Hooning a Ford is Domestic Abuse) > PardonMyFlemish16
08/31/2013 at 17:14

No, you need to open your eyes and realize that SUVs are bought by people who suck at driving to compensate by sitting up high and feeling in command, so when they T-bone you because they were texting on the way to the hair salon, you'll be crushed by their 5,000lb Suburban and they'll be fine. They only offer compromises over a wagon and have no place in modern society.

PardonMyFlemish16 > evilfacelessturtle (Hooning a Ford is Domestic Abuse)
08/31/2013 at 17:41

I guarantee you the (low) skill level of SUV drivers is matched by folks in the vehicles you approve of.

I was unaware that you were elected supreme leader and edict of all things automotive as well. Maybe just in your mind. Have fun with that :)

PardonMyFlemish16 > evilfacelessturtle (Hooning a Ford is Domestic Abuse)
08/31/2013 at 17:45

Well thankfully folks don't have to get you to approve their car purchases. Again, there are "NO legitimate reasons" to buy sports cars or luxury sedans, and yet for some reason the idea of folks buying those cars doesn't make you throw a fit. What's happening here is less an objective look at the foolishness of purchasing SUVs, and more you trying to present your preferences as objective facts.

You don't even have the facts straight. Since SUVs proliferated fatalities per mile driven have actually gone down. Any idea why? (Hint, it's not because there are so many SUVs they are killing everyone else)

PardonMyFlemish16 > Huell Howitzer
08/31/2013 at 17:48

Buying a wagon, essentially to impress folks on the internet + people who don't know anything about you but the car you drive, when you have no practical use for its added capacity, actually makes you a sheep. You have reduced the reasons you chose your car to the same as those being lambasted here- image. Thats pretty ironic, I think.

PardonMyFlemish16 > TurboLag23
08/31/2013 at 17:53

You have your whole life to settle for a wagon. Why not live a little and get something more suited to your lifestyle? I am turning 30 in 2 weeks... after 10 years of Accords and Maximas, I was finally in the position to buy a sports car, and I did (350Z). I am hoping to keep the streak going, but even if it ends I can say I did the right thing, and not "the internet thing". A 328i wagon is a boring drive compared to something like an S2000 or whatever, and being that you are a college student, I don't imagine you have much cargo or people to haul... so why saddle yourself with a wagon?

It's true, the Germans are overpriced, but the Japanese present just as good of a value as Volvo while having guaranteed quality. IDK I just don't see a reason to buy a Volvo, unless you just like the brand.

WizardAlien > 945T
08/31/2013 at 17:57

Ahhhh!!! I love Cannon beach! Nice car too :)

Huell Howitzer > PardonMyFlemish16
08/31/2013 at 19:58

Why do you think I bought it to impress people on the Internet? Why do you not think I have practical use just because I don't have a dog or kids? Geez. How did you jump to those conclusions?

Brian Ashcraft > smackela--extra-wagonated
08/31/2013 at 20:40

I live in Japan, and there are lots of wagons here. I bought a wagon—not a Volvo wagon, but a wagon. Wagons are cool!

BobFraggle > Andrew Seifert
08/31/2013 at 20:59

I think Volvo should stick to what I always thought was cool about the brand: Innovate and engineer cars like none other. I was always astounded at how easy to work on and well thought out my 740 was. Plus it was fun as hell to drive fast and was built like a tank. I'm not really sure where my love for the brand came from but I just dug their looks from the time I was a little kid. Quirky boxy things.....

PardonMyFlemish16 > Huell Howitzer
08/31/2013 at 21:31

I made the mistake of assuming w/o kids/dogs you had no use for it. Still though, unless you are constantly carrying long pieces of furniture or w/e a hatchback would probably work better.

And the folks at Toyota who decide what cars get sold and what don't are 1) way smarter than you and I and 2) much more knowledgeable about how folks choose cars. Wagons didn't disappear out of spite or ignorance; they disappeared because nobody buys them. For a while I was in the market for a 94-95 Accord EX 5 speed wagon. At one time there might have been a handful for sale around the country. In sharp contrast to the coupe and sedan. It's pretty fucking obvious why it didn't make it through the whole generation run and also never came back.

Being low to the ground is a bit dubious as well. Coming from my Z, driving my wife's Rabbit feels like sitting in an SUV. But my mom's RX doesn't feel ponderous or top heavy... just slow and unresponsive, much like the Matrix (aka Corolla wagon) or DEFINITELY a Camry wagon would be. VW just got rid of the Passat wagon, but the previous gen was perfect and sold up through 2011 or so. Same with the rest of the upscale brands. But again, why sell a wagon when you could make an SUV at the same cost and charge $10K more for it? I really dont see the problem.

Huell Howitzer > PardonMyFlemish16
09/01/2013 at 01:34

What I don't like is the mentality of chasing sales numbers. That's not innovating. You have to respect niches to stand put from the crowd. Trends change overnight, relatively. Wagon sales died off as the new generation grew up and considered them lame since their parents had them. SUVs' may very well go the same route within ten years. Sales numbers have indicated that they may very well have peaked, manufacturers have already started to move onto those horrible crossovers like the Crosstour and X6 and Venza...what's next? The ones who succeed are the ones who anticipate the next trend, not look at the current trend.

PardonMyFlemish16 > Huell Howitzer
09/01/2013 at 04:50

If wagons were SUVs (i.e. everyone was buying them and they were really popular) you wouldn't mind the chasing of sales then. Lets please stop with this charade of having problems with how the auto industry is run and just say we wish there were more of the cars we like being sold. Car companies "chase sales" because they are businesses with obligations to their employees and shareholders to stay in operation; not answer to the misplaced whims and follies of a handful of enthusiasts who probably won't put the money up to buy their cars brand new anyway.

And the ones who succeed don't just anticipate the next trends, they create them. The first full on CUVs I can remember were the RAV-4 and the CR-V, which both came out in the 90s and were instant hits, paving the way for the Escape, Santa Fe, etc. The RX300 precluded the X5 and ML, and pretty much invented the luxury CUV market. So the idea that SUVs were born out of chasing current trends is ridiculous. More importantly, like I said, NOBODY IS BUYING WAGONS, and there is nothing to indicate that they will abandon SUVs in the future, so you are trying to project a future trend that doesn't even exist and has no bearing in reality.

This whole wagon thing is just folks griping about wanting something they can't have. Most mainstreamers are not that exciting... a wagon version would not change that, and the CUV versions of cars like the Camry or Civic are not far off from the cars in driving experience. Get over it.

Huell Howitzer > PardonMyFlemish16
09/01/2013 at 11:06

Chasing sales means you will always follow. Anticipating sales takes balls and presents the opportunity of being the sole manufacturer to nail the next trend while the others catch up.

PardonMyFlemish16 > Huell Howitzer
09/01/2013 at 18:42

Either way you slice it, if sales is the goal, making wagons is a bad idea. Nobody wants them, and there is nothing to indicate any significant amount of people will want them in the future. If anything, they will just make smaller, lighter SUVs (as they already are)- because that's what people want.

evilfacelessturtle (Hooning a Ford is Domestic Abuse) > PardonMyFlemish16
09/01/2013 at 20:08

Actually, most people can't handle the power they're given in modern cars, so I don't think it's a good thing that cars keep getting more powerful while the drivers require no more training. Auto fatalities are going down because cars are safer. Not because there are less accidents. Luxury cars offer convenience and features that other cars don't. That's a tangible advantage over another car. SUVs only offer compromises. And I care because it could very well affect me if I'm unlucky enough to get hit by one of these monstrosities.

evilfacelessturtle (Hooning a Ford is Domestic Abuse) > PardonMyFlemish16
09/01/2013 at 20:13

Ooh, a personal attack, the hallmark of someone with a flimsy argument.

If you've driven on an American road for more than a few minutes, it's abundantly obvious SUV drivers are far and away the worst. It's not a stereotype, it's an observable trend.

PardonMyFlemish16 > evilfacelessturtle (Hooning a Ford is Domestic Abuse)
09/01/2013 at 21:01

Nah, the crappy driving is pretty evenly spread around. You just think SUVs are worse because you have a Pavlovian response to them and a subjectively critical eye. I ride a motorcycle along with driving a sports car... understanding how much everyone sucks is a matter of life and death for me so I would say I'm pretty qualified on that end.

The worst drivers I have encountered are NYC cab drivers, who obviously drive a whole range of cars. The type of car isn't the problem, no matter how much you want it to be.

PardonMyFlemish16 > evilfacelessturtle (Hooning a Ford is Domestic Abuse)
09/01/2013 at 21:04

If you are a defensive driver the odds of getting creamed by an SUV are pretty low. And there are very few cars that are "too much to handle" when driven within the confines of the law.

More importantly though, and back to my main point, your subjective valuation of SUV purchases is not an objective strike against them. You need to learn to separate opinion from fact. Plus if every car purchase has to be evaluated on the premise of practicality and need, you seem to be at the wrong place... unless of course, the only cars whose practicality/needs should be factored into their valuations are, SUPPLISE, SUVs, for the sole purpose of demonstrating how stupid they and those who buy them are. Yawn.

evilfacelessturtle (Hooning a Ford is Domestic Abuse) > PardonMyFlemish16
09/01/2013 at 21:30

That's the dumbest thing I've heard all week. No amount of defensive driving will save you from getting blindsided by a Suburban that ran a red because the driver was texting. And if I can get into trouble with my 155hp DD, most modern cars have way more power than is necessary for driving within the confines of the law. Most people would have no idea what would happen if they accidentally put the pedal down in their car.

I never claimed my opinion was a fact, except that there are no advantages of an SUV over a wagon, which you have failed to refute. Practicality should be a factor for any family car, which is the excuse 100% of SUV drivers use, even though they hardly have passengers anyway. A sports car is entirely for fun and does not claim to be practical. SUVs' claimed advantage is practicality which is false.

evilfacelessturtle (Hooning a Ford is Domestic Abuse) > PardonMyFlemish16
09/01/2013 at 21:32

That's a lie and you know it. Nissan/Infiniti drivers are reckless assholes, luxury car drivers follow too close and SUV drivers are inconsiderate and stupid. I've never seen a Volvo 240 do any of those things.

drivegooder > PardonMyFlemish16
09/01/2013 at 22:07

Wagons are very popular worldwide.

PardonMyFlemish16 > evilfacelessturtle (Hooning a Ford is Domestic Abuse)
09/01/2013 at 23:39

Getting blindsided will suck regardless of what car it is. Sure it will be worse in the Suburban, but I don't think the type of car is the issue as much as the driver.

And you are claiming your opinion to be fact. "Practicality should be a factor for any family car". Says who? If a family wants to ride around in a 911 who are you to judge? And by your logic, a sports car is just as bad as anything else, as "most people would have no idea what would happen if they accidentally put the pedal down in their car"- all you have to do is look up "Corvette crash stoplight" on Youtube. You are applying a gross double standard to SUVs because you don't like them... if you were equally critical of every car the only acceptable car to drive would be the new Mitsubishi Mirage. Hell even your own car doesn't fit your (emphasis on your, not some objective official ruling) rules on what the "right" choice for a daily driver should be

PardonMyFlemish16 > drivegooder
09/01/2013 at 23:41

Then they should keep selling them there. By all measures Americans generally want nothing to do with them.

drivegooder > PardonMyFlemish16
09/02/2013 at 21:10

I think people in the northern coastal states and California would beg to differ. Subaru and Audi wagons are popular there too. Subaru has the problem of selling too many cars, forcing them to contemplate whether to open a new factory, which is a huge risk for them.

It's not about wagons...it's about brand image. Like you mentioned, Volvo's thing was safety...but nowadays, most cars manufacturers are keen on safety too. Volvo tried to introduce the pedestrian airbag thing, but frankly, I care less about pedestrian safety than the type of car I'm seen in (sorry for being shallow). Volvo can't sell their cars cheaper without sacrificing whatever prestige they have left. The only things to compete on now are performance, luxury, and looks, which I also think you mentioned. You're right, they need a gamechanger to convince the general public, but I don't think large wagons is their issue.

PardonMyFlemish16 > drivegooder
09/02/2013 at 22:42

Again, if the demand was there, Volvo wouldn't be wishy washy on wagons. We wouldn't have whittled down from every manufacturer selling wagons to... Acura, MB and VW. Hell, even Subaru has stopped selling wagons... the Impreza is a hatch; the Outback is an SUV. People just dont want em